tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post8838323941062984122..comments2024-03-25T09:56:16.164+00:00Comments on An Awfully Big Blog Adventure: What's an author event worth? by Nicola MorganUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-31031230947402832692014-09-02T09:16:05.384+01:002014-09-02T09:16:05.384+01:00Brian, yes, plus expenses. Always plus expenses. S...Brian, yes, plus expenses. Always plus expenses. Sorry it took me so long to answer - only just seen the comment!Nicola Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07847390687632715336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-90790118786448168982013-10-14T11:45:24.035+01:002013-10-14T11:45:24.035+01:00I do a fair number of school talks and always paid...I do a fair number of school talks and always paid - though I'm suspecting from your comments I'm under-charging. What I wasn't totally clear about was when you said 'one normal author talk £225' I assume that's plus travel expenses?<br /><br />My wife works in a school and I have every sympathy with the fact that they have very little budget for author visits, though it doesn't change my opinion of what's acceptable.Brian Clegghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12723555872580740773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-92135184537178281522013-10-13T02:10:43.663+01:002013-10-13T02:10:43.663+01:00..When I said "take time off" I meant ti.....When I said "take time off" I meant time from your non-writing job which you, of course, don't have, lucky girl! You know, you might want to suggest to a client who gives you trouble that you're running a business, like a plumber or electrician and that they wouldn't ask a plumber to fix the school's pipes free for altruistic reasons. It certainly worked when our Society of Authors persuaded a conservative government to let us have education lending right, which the Labor government had promised us before being kicked out of government and which they were going to scrap. They wouldn't have understood the real reason, that some writers depended on lending rights to keep them going after a book is out of print, but,"Are you interfering with our small businesses?" Oh, yes, that they understood! As will schools that have the money to bring you out from Scotland to speak to their kids. If they want to bring you that far, they can afford to pay. If they can't, they should stick to local writers or do without, as mine does. And for the record,when we do occasionally get a guest, I make sure they get publicity, unlike that conference you attended. ;-)<br />Sue Bursztynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09362273418897882971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-61128758396886985092013-10-12T23:47:07.281+01:002013-10-12T23:47:07.281+01:00Nicola, I quite understand the need for a full tim...Nicola, I quite understand the need for a full time writer to be paid for everything. I said,"full time *day* job." Where I live, most writers have to do things outside of writing to pay the bills. Work in shops, teach - school, not writing and don't get me started on how school teaching drains your creativity, leaving you little left for writing - office work, etc. Our population is too small to sustain a lot of people who write or do art or music for a living. My nephew is a fine musician, singer and composer who plays regular gigs and whose songs are played on radio and TV, even, recently, a TV commercial, and he still has a day job, as a travel agent. The few people who do write full time here are invariably married or partnered so that they can make the choice to work from home while their beloved pays the bills for a while.<br />You made a choice, I didn't. Good luck to you for being able to do this as a full time job, but please understand how lucky you are.Sue Bursztynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09362273418897882971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-21453313333493141252013-09-26T17:58:02.010+01:002013-09-26T17:58:02.010+01:00I wonder what teachers think of the fees we charge...I wonder what teachers think of the fees we charge? And if they do, indeed, sit there mentally clocking our "hourly rate" (which it isn't) against theirs? I haven't really dared ask any (apart from the one I am married to, who of course thinks what I charge is reasonable!)... <br /><br />Every so often I mail my details out to a clump of schools in a particular authority - especially if there is some connection I can mention, like another school in the area I visited recently or a local festival event I did/ am doing. I get a handful of interested parties for every hundred or so emails I send out. (It doesn't take that long to do a hundred if you do ten a day, which only takes five minutes. And I send them individually addressed to a relevant person in the school, not bulk spamming. If there's something interesting about literacy on their website, I mention that to show I've looked at it.) I get the very occasional terse "unsubscribe", and, on one memorable occasion, a shouty caps-lock rant from the head, along the lines of DO NOT EMAIL ME. Obviously hadn't had his coffee that day. <br /><br />I am on Contact an Author and Authors Aloud and Start the Story too, and have the odd booking via them - but it's fair to say I get 95% of my work through my own promotional efforts. <br /><br />I still wonder what happens to the 97 or so in every hundred which get absolutely no response. I can only assume they are plonked into a delete file by the secretary, or sighed over by a literacy co-ordinator who finds my bumph in her pigeon-hole, momentarily wishes she had the money and then bins it. It would be useful to know. The signal-to-noise ratio is getting a bit frustrating.Daniel Blythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07487799866651688342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-12068929819993512752013-09-26T14:50:34.198+01:002013-09-26T14:50:34.198+01:00Anonymous, well done. Stand strong. You don't ...Anonymous, well done. Stand strong. You don't want to work for someone who doesn't believe you have value, do you? Luckily, trust me, most schools are wonderful and do understand and would no more want to treat anyone fairly than,than, than i don't know what, but you know what I mean.<br /><br />Let no one think that I don't love my job and love the schools that invite me and love what school librarians do to foster reading. But it has to be fair.<br /><br />And KAtherine, that's an interesting point (re the tax credits.) And the point about catching bugs!Nicola Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07847390687632715336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-21191730068064649012013-09-26T13:21:29.606+01:002013-09-26T13:21:29.606+01:00This has been VERY helpful for me. I'm trying ...This has been VERY helpful for me. I'm trying to arrange a mini-book tour at the moment and have met with resistance, rejection and even radio slience when I mention my fees to schools - fees that are, I might add, a fraction of what you suggest. This is good validation for me that my fee structure is in fact EXTREMELY good value for money, and I'm not pricing myself out of the market.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-49386887679308571252013-09-24T20:54:41.178+01:002013-09-24T20:54:41.178+01:00I've read this post and all the comments with ...I've read this post and all the comments with interest. There is also the "school visit as part of a publisher's tour", for which the author is not paid apart from expenses (covered by the publisher). I assume the schools pay nothing for this, but are expected to organise book sales.<br /><br />I've done a few of these, which usually mean up to a week away from home and three - sometimes four - talks every day. I find school visits quite stressful, so these tours are very draining for me, even if they do sell a decent number of books. I need about a week of preparation time beforehand, and another week afterwards to recover, since normally catch a bug and end up in bed!<br /><br />I think the problem is most people who are not in the publishing business think all authors are rich, and therefore can afford to be charitable. A few authors can, of course - and I'd love to be one of them! - but so far that has not happened. Also, I currently claim working tax credits so am not supposed to undercharge for my work, which means donating back fees is not an option for me.Katherine Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17196712319655603442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-47009443929571587822013-09-24T06:32:20.181+01:002013-09-24T06:32:20.181+01:00Sue, we (most of us) *do* have a full-time job - a...Sue, we (most of us) *do* have a full-time job - as writers! It *is* a job. So, we are not "taking time off" to do school visits. Doing school visits is part of the job, which is *precisely* why we expect to be paid. And if some writers have another job, that's called having two jobs, both of which expect to be paid. I don't really do envy but if I did I might envy you for being able to afford to donate your time :) Let's not get into envy - we all make choices and there are pros and cons to all of them, I think. But I have chosen to be a full-time writer, with all the wonderful and difficult things that entails. <br /><br />The idea of asking a small fee per child - that's up to the school to do, and is indeed one way they can raise the funds. The writer doesn't take the money from the children. I and many of the writers commenting on this post are very experienced at this and many of us have done hundreds of properly-paid school visits. We have great relationships with schools and very much understand the issues.<br /><br />Re the charity I spoke for, no, of course it wasn't a fund-raiser - I hope you don't think I'd take a fee if a charity I supported was raising funds! It was a professional conference and I was speaking as a professional, about the brain. I travelled to London for it and was paid my travel. Why did I do it? Because I was naive and believed the "it will be good publicity for you" line.Nicola Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07847390687632715336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-28579983933667439822013-09-23T23:08:42.629+01:002013-09-23T23:08:42.629+01:00Nicola, this charity event, just asking: was it a ...Nicola, this charity event, just asking: was it a fundraiser? If so, surely the whole point was to raise money for the charity and of course the attendees would have paid a lot. You would certainly want to know how much of the money raised was going to the charity and if those who arranged it were being pad. If it wasn't a charity you supported, why go in the first place?<br /><br />It's certainly a troublesome question. I have done the occasional event - unlike some on this list I have a full time day job and believe it or not, I envy YOU for having the option of writing full time; if you were doing a full time day job, this wouldn't be an issue, because you couldn't take time off to do school visits, especially if you were working in a school. I remember my first invitation to speak. It was a club for exceptionally bright kids. They explained that if necessary they could scrape together a small fee; most guests, including some who were friends of mine, had donated their time. It was my first time and I was glad to have the practice. I went. I had a wonderful time with a small group of lovely children and they thanked me with a rose bush. I don't regret it.<br /><br />There are ways and ways. A very successful writer I know asks a very small individual fee per child and a minimum number of kids. This way, she gets a decent fee and the school that maybe doesn't have much money, like mine, can pay her without problems. Win win. <br /><br />No need to be stroppy and assume everyone is out to rip you off! :)Sue Bursztynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09362273418897882971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-15803486648612546702013-09-23T20:54:22.897+01:002013-09-23T20:54:22.897+01:00Thanks, Lari. Oh, yes, re being able to sell books...Thanks, Lari. Oh, yes, re being able to sell books... Because the ownership of a book is a wonderful thing and, in other news, the only thing that keeps the book world going! Yes, there is sometimes squeamishness "because some pupils will be disadvantaged" (so, let's disadvantage them all, then) and sometimes the more practical issue of kids+money=problems. Nicola Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07847390687632715336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-31753242400020384492013-09-23T20:35:07.095+01:002013-09-23T20:35:07.095+01:00What an utterly fantastic, inspirational and vital...What an utterly fantastic, inspirational and vital post. I'm very lucky because I live in Scotland and can usually use the Scottish Book Trust rate as a guide for author visit fees. But I'm so glad you posted this well reasoned and respectful argument for authors' right to be paid, because I think there is a squeamishness amongst those in education and sometimes even those in the arts about paying authors for doing what we love. We have to get over that squeamishness and explain the economic realities of being an author, because when we do, in the positive way you've done here, people generally do see why we have a right to be paid. Now, could you do the same for authors' rights to sell books at the end of school visits? (Another common cause of squeamishness amongst teachers...) Thanks so much again! Lari Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13290918954317744377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-68700082462913822362013-09-23T14:30:04.712+01:002013-09-23T14:30:04.712+01:00Jacey - very interesting! Thanks for adding your e...Jacey - very interesting! Thanks for adding your experience. <br /><br />Dan - yes, which shows that being paid is only one part of the equation but that being paid AND the school valuing and putting effort into helping you make the event work often go together.Nicola Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07847390687632715336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-77748655001388027132013-09-23T14:23:16.582+01:002013-09-23T14:23:16.582+01:00I've recently secured my first three-book sale...I've recently secured my first three-book sale. My books aren't out yet, so I haven't been invited to speak anywhere (except to be on panels at SF cons which are not paid gigs), however I've been a professional folk musician negotiating gigs and school workshop days and in exactly the same position as authors faced with the what-to-charge dilemma. When anybody said £300 was a lot to pay for a 90 minute performance I would tell them that we loved the singing and always did it for free, but we had to cover the driving, rehearsing and administration costs, so the £300 was our call-out charge. Sometimes we got the gig, sometimes not, but on balance it was true and it banged the point home that the actual public appearance is only the tip of the iceberg.Jacey Bedfordhttp://www.jaceybedford.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-26365181660252445422013-09-23T13:04:46.745+01:002013-09-23T13:04:46.745+01:00I find myself in agreement both with Matt and with...I find myself in agreement both with Matt and with Nicola's response to him. School events as a "promotional activity" have limited value - or perhaps it is more accurate to say unpredictable value - but that isn't really the point of them. They are a valuable part of our work, and that's why we charge! <br /><br />I've done 250+ school visits in the past 6 years and my book sales at them have varied wildly. My most ever at a one-day school event is 80+ - quite took me by surprise and I had to order more in. My worst - on a couple of occasions - is zero, and so I've had to lug an entire bag of books back on the train. So, good job I wasn't relying on a certain number of sales to pay my way. <br /><br />I share Matt's frustration at schools which do not make enough of an "event" of the author visit, not informing parents, etc. And there is often paranoia in secondary schools about taking them "off timetable" and so my workshops have sometimes been presented to the kids as if they were just another lesson. Cue kids calling you "sir" and looking bored. <br /><br />Almost without exception the best secondary school visits have been those where I've been booked by the librarian, and based in the library all day. Librarians are great for looking after you with tea and biscuits... The best primary schools for me have been where I've had one really keen teacher assigned to me all day (usually helps if they are a Doctor Who fan!), all the KS2 kids in the hall for my first talk, excited atmosphere, lots of oohing and aahing as I put my initial video compilation on, lots of questions, good writing in the workshops, kids keen to read out - and a good few book sales, because they've not only written to the parents but sent them a text reminder and the kids have come with the right money in named envelopes so I know how to spell their names... On average I sell 20 books on a primary school visit.Daniel Blythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07487799866651688342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-75637817048872973992013-09-23T11:59:08.175+01:002013-09-23T11:59:08.175+01:00Thank you for this, Nicola. We all need reminding ...Thank you for this, Nicola. We all need reminding that we're worth it - as does everyone else! The problem remains that the world at large believes that all writers make an awful lot of money - even my friends are shocked at how much, or rather how little, I get on each copy of my book sold. I used to charge for school visits according to the old SofA guidleines, and will continue to do charge.Savita Kalhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07977368691995933130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-26849072501242560562013-09-23T09:22:52.557+01:002013-09-23T09:22:52.557+01:00Matt, interesting (and sad, but not surprising, I&...Matt, interesting (and sad, but not surprising, I'm afraid.) But I urge you not to be demoralised. One thing you might take away from your experience is that, as most of us learn, school events are NOT promotional activities. And that's pretty much the underlying point of my post: they are part of our work, very valuable work, and when we are paid that indicates that the school values it, too. When we are not paid, as others have noted, the tendency is that our effort is not valued and the event has a great chance of being a poor one for all concerned. I urge you to continue to do them (if you enjoy them) but to charge for them. Obviously, if you don't they can't be an income stream! For me, they are not only an income stream but also very satisfying and enjoyable.<br /><br />Anne Fine and Michael M (as well as Terry Pratchett and others) are good examples of writers who help reinforce the high value of events. of course, not everyone can charge the fees they do, but it's worth noting that they *do* charge high fees, despite earning very decently from their writing. Good for them.Nicola Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07847390687632715336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-53717471882259829702013-09-23T08:44:06.584+01:002013-09-23T08:44:06.584+01:00I found myself nodding in agreement as I read your...I found myself nodding in agreement as I read your post and all the comments, Nicola. School visits are an important part of my income and undercharging undervalues us all. I'll be referring people to this link when the opportunity arises.<br /><br />For me, it's been a sliding scale. When I started, I was working part time in a school so it was easy to do a few free practice sessions to establish what talks/workshops worked for what ages and gain the confidence to charge a fee when writing became my full time job. On my first paid visit ten years ago, I was amazed to find myself in the same school on the same day as Anne Fine and Michael Morpurgo and I didn't ask for (or receive) anything like their fee. I still offer a significant discount for local schools and Skype visits.Jane Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01361379190770989657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-66048695083565982372013-09-23T06:02:38.903+01:002013-09-23T06:02:38.903+01:00I am copying this from my comment on Cadownunder&#...I am copying this from my comment on Cadownunder's blog at the request of Nicola.<br />I think there is a perception that authors have already been paid by the publisher. <br />Most people have no idea how little authors get paid. They have no understanding that you can write excellent books that will never get published and that are, in the end, just wasted time. <br />We undervalue writing because words are something we all use. Words are easy to physically reproduce. They are not like one-off art works or the hours a musician is seen to put in. That a book is a one-off work of art and takes as much skill (or more) than playing a musical instrument is something people simply do not understand. <br />When you can get that message across people might be more willing to pay for your time. I am just glad I am a reader rather than a writer. Chris<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-46901719573610180162013-09-23T00:15:33.309+01:002013-09-23T00:15:33.309+01:00A very interesting read. As a 'newish' aut...A very interesting read. As a 'newish' author (2 children's books published) I started doing the occasional free event simply because I found it almost impossible to get schools, libraries, bookshops etc interested in having me along unless I did a freebie.<br />I was painfully aware that if I didn't make money for my publisher, then he would have no option but to drop me (it is a business after all!). So, as a writer without a 'name', I thought that I must do whatever I could to promote my books. If that meant free events, so be it. I simply could not afford to turn down an opportunity for promotion.<br />What amazed me from the very beginning, was how little consideration I got as a writer. Just basic politeness seemed beyond many organisations. Last year I wrote to fifteen book festivals, politely asking if they would consider me for their programme. Only one even bothered email a reply.<br />I have turned up to do free events at schools, to discover the school had not even bothered to contact parents to let them know that my books will be available to buy on the day. And so my only source of revenue for the day disappeared.<br />I fast came to the conclusion that 'author events' are yesterday's promo method. No-one seems sufficiently interested in them to make them a worthwhile activity for authors. I can't help feeling I've wasted a lot of time and effort which would have been better spent on the internet - tweeting, updating my website, emailing bloggers and all that sort of stuff.<br />And this is a pity, because the kids clearly love author events, and I do too. There's no better feeling than seeing a 10 year old literally bouncing up and down because they are so excited to meet you and have you sign their book. And that's why I'll keep doing them - because me and the kids love 'em.<br />But as a revenue stream? I'll take some convincing...<br /><br />Matt CartneyMatt Cartneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13679414975582890391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-13796224440223393382013-09-22T23:20:52.523+01:002013-09-22T23:20:52.523+01:00To put this in perspective, my charge-out rate as ...To put this in perspective, my charge-out rate as a professional engineer is around £90 per hour plus expenses, and that includes travel time, and 45p per mile if I use my own car.<br /><br />An eight-hour day, with maybe four hours on-site, would be over £1000.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09799125598133377058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-88867803827329064692013-09-22T21:07:09.459+01:002013-09-22T21:07:09.459+01:00Saviour, I am shocked at that story! If someone is...Saviour, I am shocked at that story! If someone is late for work, especially through no fault of their own, they don't have their pay docked!Nicola Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07847390687632715336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-77624123795241066822013-09-22T19:31:50.075+01:002013-09-22T19:31:50.075+01:00Brilliant blog post. I would add that expenses for...Brilliant blog post. I would add that expenses for a trip are critical too. I have had invitations to schools in different parts of the country withdrawn because I asked for travel expenses - even though I offered to stay overnight with friends to avoid hotel bills, travel at off peak times and book well in advance to get the minimum ticket price. I understand that schools have limited budgets BUT I am a private individual on a low income and I have 2 kids. If the school can't fund a train ticket, I certainly can't! Helenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06694255848074064936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-29650470270475692562013-09-22T19:14:05.151+01:002013-09-22T19:14:05.151+01:00Thanks, Nicola - this is brilliant. As an author s...Thanks, Nicola - this is brilliant. As an author struggling with this 'how much to charge' issue, and one who was beginning to come down on the 'maybe I should just lower my rates to get more gigs' side, it really helped to have the other side of the argument put so strongly and persuasively. Much to think on!<br /><br />CeliaC.J.Busbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12288574235370421625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-49551356535205102482013-09-22T19:09:53.945+01:002013-09-22T19:09:53.945+01:00Phew! Well thank goodness for that at least! :)Phew! Well thank goodness for that at least! :)Liz Kesslerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12675259815023413448noreply@blogger.com