tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post1748965039115385061..comments2024-03-25T09:56:16.164+00:00Comments on An Awfully Big Blog Adventure: Childfree adults in children's literature - Clémentine BeauvaisUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-72818831290662639192016-01-30T16:05:09.827+00:002016-01-30T16:05:09.827+00:00Fantastic post. Thank you! Having just finished &q...Fantastic post. Thank you! Having just finished "All the Light You Cannot See" by Anthony Doerr, I was immediately struck by the fact that Marie-Laure is left alone in Saint Malo with two childless people - the old housekeeper Madam Manec and her great uncle Etienne, who isn't at all creepy, as in little girl/ older man scenario. And though he's sad, he is a huge source of inspiration. And then the marvellous and pragmatic Madam Manec ... too wonderful. This doesn't add anything to what you've said but as I'm fresh from the book I felt it was a great example of childlessness in an adult/child relationship. Dianne Hofmeyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18222157214605257030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-26325089578383278002016-01-29T15:51:23.192+00:002016-01-29T15:51:23.192+00:00Graaah of course I didn't get a chance to look...Graaah of course I didn't get a chance to look at the comments yesterday - thank you! I don't really imply an agenda or conspiracy (not this time), more like a set of narrative or generic conventions that lead to specific characters being characterised in similar ways. But I agree entirely about the gender aspects, which clearly must be of capital importance there. <br /><br />Very interesting point too about the changes over time and the suspicious nature of grown men being alone with young ones - something that struck me recently when rereading Kensuke's Kingdom. Sad indeed, of course... Clémentine Beauvaishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03115567199751033932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-37086463258721530452016-01-29T07:02:13.444+00:002016-01-29T07:02:13.444+00:00You seem to imply an agenda or a conspiracy (let&#...You seem to imply an agenda or a conspiracy (let's make all childfree people look evil or sad) but as you also say, it's a narrative necessity. In a book about children, every character has to have an attitude towards the child protagonist. As in a world war, true neutrality is not possible. You can't be totally indifferent to another human being, can you?Nick Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08191176209084540085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-78577724528056284752016-01-28T13:39:50.342+00:002016-01-28T13:39:50.342+00:00Interesting post as ever, Clementine! Two sidelong...Interesting post as ever, Clementine! Two sidelong thoughts. When it comes to adults being seen as somehow lacking if they don't have children, I wonder how much more this is the case for women than for men? All the examples you cite in this category are female apart from Captain Hook, and he seems to have led a fulfilling life as a pirate for many years before anchoring at Neverland. No one looks at a pirate ship normally and asks where all the children are.<br /><br />As for teachers, I assume this is (like the custom of addressing female teachers as 'Miss') in part a left-over from the time when female teachers were expected to give up work on marriage. Like the wearing of mortar-boards, this seems to be part of the teacherly iconography that has long outlived actual usage.Catherine Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17693526864905868829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-13041303380492467162016-01-28T11:55:29.823+00:002016-01-28T11:55:29.823+00:00Following up on Miss Honey, it's maybe interes...Following up on Miss Honey, it's maybe interesting to look at the foster mother in Jacqueline Wilson's Tracey Beaker books. Like Miss Honey, she takes on a child who is not her own, but it's much less sugar-coated - in fact, the second book (the Dare Game) is very much about their problems adapting to each other, and it is clear that the foster mum (who is a journalist) has her own life and friends, and is having problems relinquishing some of her independence - just as the foster child, Tracey, is struggling to adapt to the idea that everything isn't going to be perfect, and that her foster mother has a life beyond nurturing her! It's very realistic, and very different from the extreme archetypes you get in a writer like Dahl, but obviously chimes with child readers.<br /><br />Again, in the realist tradition, there is the character of Ole Golly, the nanny, in Harriet the Spy. Old Golly is a bit of a "mentor" figure - she is well read, and a source of wisdom - but she leaves Harriet in order to make her own life, and part of Harriet's growing maturity is the realisation that Old Golly does have aspirations of her own (and whether those will include her own children or not, is never specified, and doesn't really seem to be important).Emma Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02718171070716804800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-10267196927135911482016-01-28T11:45:06.524+00:002016-01-28T11:45:06.524+00:00An interesting post, although Matilda aside, I thi...An interesting post, although <i>Matilda</i> aside, I think the distinction between "childfree" and "childless" is a bit of a false one. <br /><br />I think there are many adult, childless characters who play an important part through being a "mentor" character - i.e. they guide the child in some way, and often pass on some kind of skill. Mentor type characters might include Dumbledore/Sirius Black and many of the HP characters, Gandalf, Merriman (Dark is Rising) - many, many fantasy characters - but also the many ballet/music practitioners of books like Noel Streatfeild's, who help the child characters develop their talents and navigate the world of the stage. They are not at all "obsessed" with the child or involved in parental-type emotional nurturing (or day-to-day drudgery). They very much have their own lives and talents and are positive characters. Whether or not these adults have chosen their childless status doesn't seem relevant to their role, that I can see.<br /><br />Taking up Stroppy's point about changes over time, I wonder if one thing we will see will be a reduction in the number of bachelor male childless quasi uncle-types who turn up in children's books - characters like Bill (Enid Blyton's "Adventure"s stories) Uncle Jim (Swallows and Amazons) Mr Carter (Jennings books) or even Puddleglum (Narnia), because of an increased suspicion of adult males who want to hang out with children who aren't their own. That would be rather sad I think.<br /><br />Emma Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02718171070716804800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-25318686601131784522016-01-28T07:24:00.843+00:002016-01-28T07:24:00.843+00:00An interesting distinction, Clem. Of course, child...An interesting distinction, Clem. Of course, children's literature (at least that which children like) tends to reflect children's view of the world which is naturally centred around children and they would have no interest in a person who didn't have some kind of either positive or negative relation to children, just as they wouldn't have much of a narrative role, as you say. I wonder, though, if there has also been a change in the portrayal, or is about to be, that might reflect the actuality of being child-free or childless? It's probably too early to tell. But when I was growing up, there were still hoards of old ladies who were the thwarted brides of the First World War, and there were quite a lot of grouchy and hostile (to a child, but clearly damaged) old men. Miss Honey is young and could fit into a pre-child category, but sinister, bitter and twisted older people were legion - including most of my relatives. (Again, that's how I saw them as a child; they were probably perfectly nice really, just sad.) Growing up, I knew a lot of childfree/childless adults but I wonder how many most children know now? We are post war widows (on a large scale), post fertility treatment and post a lot of child mortality. I wonder if the pattern will change once your generation of writers outnumbers mine. How many childfree/less couples are there in children's literature? It's a really interesting topic - thank you for raising it.Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.com