tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post3978349777466968673..comments2024-03-18T17:05:21.126+00:00Comments on An Awfully Big Blog Adventure: Zoella and the Zeitgeist. By Keren David.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-51639088161025302452014-12-09T19:44:00.526+00:002014-12-09T19:44:00.526+00:00Great post Keren. I've taken a slightly more p...Great post Keren. I've taken a slightly more personal and intimate view of events over on my blog, if you wanted to head over and take a look and let me know what you think that would be hugely appreciated!<br /><br />http://illuminoire.blogspot.com<br />Cheri xoxCherihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16929945940872453990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-38973704031212357802014-12-08T22:53:02.878+00:002014-12-08T22:53:02.878+00:00Really interesting discussion, particularly at a t...Really interesting discussion, particularly at a time when authors average incomes are declining precipitously.<br /><br />I know three ghostwriters very well through the shop, and the work they all do is very different (one helps individuals write religious memoirs - very niche, one writes for Working Partners, the other ghosts for a huge celebrity). For one of them, ghostwriting pays the bills that allows them to work hard at becoming a name themselves.<br /><br />With the Zoella debacle it's the publisher who deserves the flack. They completely misunderstood 'the brand' - Zoella's values with respect to her fans include honesty, and instead the publishers saw the marketing low-fruit.<br /><br />I don't think you can blame Zoe at all for this, but don't expect any publishing suit to stick their head above the parapet and apologise anytime soon...I bet their just advising her to ride out the storm, which will blow over soon. Shame.Mark Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17099767231368474963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-45727770478747621722014-12-08T19:14:49.294+00:002014-12-08T19:14:49.294+00:00Sorry, Anonymous, I wasn't trying to denigrate...Sorry, Anonymous, I wasn't trying to denigrate your career or suggest it paid well. I have no qualification to do so. I only wanted to point out that sometimes a guaranteed income is worth more than a possibility of a much larger one, and that that dilemma is not unique to the publishing industry.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09799125598133377058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-68004217923118226282014-12-08T16:36:22.822+00:002014-12-08T16:36:22.822+00:00As the mother of a teenage girl I've known abo...As the mother of a teenage girl I've known about Zoella forever (or so it feels...). I'm just surprised she wasn't snapped up by a publishing house ages ago. Keren Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13121027210783177857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-68967068186975604782014-12-08T15:52:44.972+00:002014-12-08T15:52:44.972+00:00I have been living under a rock, clearly! I only d...I have been living under a rock, clearly! I only discovered there was such a person as Zoella because it happened to be on the BBC website, and then your blog post popped up on my blog feed. Like Nicola Morgan said above, I assumed that it was a book about the process of doing her vlog and creating her online image, not a work of fiction.Becca McCallumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339982441409936532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-184678553225791262014-12-08T14:06:15.298+00:002014-12-08T14:06:15.298+00:00Great post, Keren (and thanks so much for the name...Great post, Keren (and thanks so much for the name check).<br /><br />Hopefully young people will seek out SC's books now, as you say.Caroline Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04708248040141519582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-37828233348350299922014-12-08T13:51:12.257+00:002014-12-08T13:51:12.257+00:00Fab post, Keren. Says everything I'd want to s...Fab post, Keren. Says everything I'd want to say - only better!Emma Haughtonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-70425249295341765862014-12-08T13:02:40.670+00:002014-12-08T13:02:40.670+00:00I like this post a lot - and as Zoe says, good poi...I like this post a lot - and as Zoe says, good point about the good Zoella actually does in highlighting teenage girls' anxieties. But Penguin and her agent should sort out this mess. It isn't good PRAmandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15428693013132917947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-65561838272050960312014-12-08T12:55:50.256+00:002014-12-08T12:55:50.256+00:00Presumably, Richard, you don't work 10 hours a...Presumably, Richard, you don't work 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, which would have been the minimum required to write 80,000 words in six weeks. This doesn't factor in the 15 per cent that the writer would have given to her agent or the weeks taken up by the editing process. As you yourself point out: no sick pay or holiday pay is included. And this is one job in a year. I think you'll find that this type of job works out as below minimum wage. Most of us writers are willing to take peanuts for the joy of writing our own books and seeing our names on them. When we are employed as hacks, we should be properly compensated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-25393940961947116452014-12-08T12:14:24.126+00:002014-12-08T12:14:24.126+00:00It's that state of the industry that depresses...It's that state of the industry that depresses me most about this. It's another take on what I was trying to articulate in my post a couple of days ago - the very poor rewards to writers in an industry based on commercialism.C.J.Busbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12288574235370421625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-91518729364722469552014-12-08T11:26:48.543+00:002014-12-08T11:26:48.543+00:00As I said, the ghostwriter took the deal. So it ob...As I said, the ghostwriter took the deal. So it obviously felt like a fair deal to her. What's interesting though is that it's possibly a better deal than she gets for writing her own books, which says a lot for the state of the industry. Keren Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13121027210783177857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-36659773227214706222014-12-08T11:18:41.568+00:002014-12-08T11:18:41.568+00:00While I can understand the problem people have thi...While I can understand the problem people have thinking that one person wrote the book only to find it was someone else, I don't have a problem with an anonymous ghostwriter not getting any royalties.<br /><br />If it was 7k for six weeks work, then she's getting paid more than I am in my day job. The software I write sells for tens of thousands, of which I don't see a penny. If a customer pays for me to do work for them, my rate is around £100 per hour. I don't see any of that either.<br /><br />I <i>could</i> go freelance and pick up a larger percentage, but then I don't get job security, pension contributions, healthcare, etc. As Stroppy Author says, it is a choice. You choose to work for less money, but not necessarily less value.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09799125598133377058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-11406042060582137952014-12-08T10:11:17.469+00:002014-12-08T10:11:17.469+00:00So well said, as always, Keren. The whole affair r...So well said, as always, Keren. The whole affair raises important points about writing, ghosting, celebrity 'culture' and exploitation. Sheena Wilkinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13847659993713606837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-21912228694055206482014-12-08T10:05:20.242+00:002014-12-08T10:05:20.242+00:00Excellent post, Keren (and thank you for the menti...Excellent post, Keren (and thank you for the mention!). I think what bothers me most about this is the quite cynical use of Zoella's devoted fan base as a cash cow. Yet even that wouldn't feel so bad had they just been more transparent. Instead, now that it's come out, young teens are heartbroken that someone they trusted lied to them. Very sad.Lee Weatherlynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-46427652394811139002014-12-08T09:45:32.119+00:002014-12-08T09:45:32.119+00:00Gosh we needed this post so much and you have put ...Gosh we needed this post so much and you have put the whole thing in such great perspective - this is exactly what blogs ( vlogs. etc.) are for, so well done that writer - Keren David - and must say, very chuffed you put my name in as well...Miriam Halahmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17841164190139769948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-82016088103405328812014-12-08T09:39:45.372+00:002014-12-08T09:39:45.372+00:00Absolutely spot on Keren. Her brand is a towering ...Absolutely spot on Keren. Her brand is a towering achievement girls love her. Here's hoping Siobhan Curhams books garner a fraction of Zoella's sales.Catherine Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14610226884546830879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-28060522693984629802014-12-08T09:11:31.948+00:002014-12-08T09:11:31.948+00:00Keren, I completely agree. Until this morning when...Keren, I completely agree. Until this morning when I saw the press release, all I'd done was read the headline, which talked about her "book" (not "novel") which, because I know Zoella's online work, I assumed wrongly was a self-help/non-fic book, not a novel. Earlier comments I'd made online were made in the light of not realising it was a novel. Which changes things. If it had been a non-fic book based on her blog/vlog, that would have been different, because she has done so much of the groundwork herself and built up her own relevant following. A novel is a different thing entirely.Nicola Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07847390687632715336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-53503567168134573692014-12-08T09:06:42.472+00:002014-12-08T09:06:42.472+00:00Great post Keren. I think this whole situation has...Great post Keren. I think this whole situation has raised an interesting debate around ghosting.<br />It would be great if more readers find Siobhan's books through this and even more YA authors perhaps.Eve Ainsworthhttp://www.eveainsworth.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-91775766620364553712014-12-08T09:06:16.748+00:002014-12-08T09:06:16.748+00:00Great post Keren. I think this whole situation has...Great post Keren. I think this whole situation has raised an interesting debate around ghosting.<br />It would be great if more readers find Siobhan's books through this and even more YA authors perhaps.Eve Ainsworthhttp://www.eveainsworth.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-53438411167743300762014-12-08T09:02:19.211+00:002014-12-08T09:02:19.211+00:00Eminently sensible, as always, Keren. I'm glad...Eminently sensible, as always, Keren. I'm glad you made that point about not sneering at Zoella just because she's a young girl who likes young girly things and is liked by other young girls. THAT isn't the problem. The problem is... well, the thing you said the problem is. And if it's true that Siobhan Curham was paid so little for that much work then I do think it's appalling. *I* wouldn't even take that deal, and I'm perpetually skint (not that anyone would offer me a ghostwriting gig anyway).<br /><br />Thank you for the shout out, btw :)Zoë Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275368005359548134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-29282084471832665762014-12-08T07:52:33.165+00:002014-12-08T07:52:33.165+00:00Well that is just what I am suggesting, Stroppy. H...Well that is just what I am suggesting, Stroppy. Hopefully the success of Zoella's books will get more people reading Siobhan's books, and those of other UKYA writers. And I don't agree that 99 per cent of readers don't care. Not if they are 13-year-old girls who now have to struggle with the knowledge that their idol has been less than honest with them. Keren Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13121027210783177857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-49431383818559568902014-12-08T07:51:05.412+00:002014-12-08T07:51:05.412+00:00Wise (and generoust too). Thanks, Keren.Wise (and generoust too). Thanks, Keren.Candy Gourlayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802791643303335762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-27457699224910016392014-12-08T07:39:09.865+00:002014-12-08T07:39:09.865+00:00A lot of people make a living from ghosting (I'...A lot of people make a living from ghosting (I'm not one of them, but I know some). Outing them annoys their publishers and costs them work - possibly their whole career. So it's a shame there was an effor to out Siobhan for the sake of taking a pop at Zoella. <br /><br />It's a delicate balance - people who don't make a fortune from their own novels often like to subsidise and support that income by writing character-led fiction, by ghost-writing, but a host of other types of writing which might be anonymous (including writing genre fiction under another name). It's not a clever game to to hunt down who these people really are - it's a violation of their choice of a way of working. Hence Siobhan has refused to comment. (I'm not criticising you, Keren - I know it was in the Telegraph!) It would be nice if there was some kind of acknowledgement that a book has not been entirely written by the sleb whose name is on the cover, but 99% of readers don't give a damn anyway.<br /><br />Perhpas there will be a happy outcome in that a few readers might buy some of Siobhan's original novels if they like the Zoella book - let's hope so, as she's going to need the income now.Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-14834524045240221372014-12-08T06:49:16.688+00:002014-12-08T06:49:16.688+00:00It was a joke - but point taken. It was a joke - but point taken. Keren Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13121027210783177857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7780182174577095197.post-46953238015908421072014-12-08T04:11:07.083+00:002014-12-08T04:11:07.083+00:00John Green was a successful writer before his YouT...John Green was a successful writer before his YouTube career began. Looking for Alaska won the Printz Award in 2006, a year before he even created a channel. He has had added success as a result of YouTube, but was able to establish himself without the help of an online following. Saying that he started out like Zoella (who became an internet personality well after John had written books and started the Vlogbrothers) does a discredit to his talent and hard work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com